Curse

Rocky Raccoon · May 20, 2010, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

Have you ever cheated in a game before? Only those without sin shall cast the 1st stone....Ever heard that before? O.o

Yes I have and I have never cheated in an online game, so may I throw the stone?

Schnellburg · May 20, 2010, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky Raccoon

Yes I have and I have never cheated in an online game, so may I throw the stone?

Nope because you have cheated. It is human nature to lie, no one is innocent, and if you deny it, you are again lying.

It is a game, a 5 year old game. If people wanna bot and risk their accounts, then hey by all means let them. Just keep reporting them, and maybe Anet will do something about it eventually.

Turbo Ginsu · May 20, 2010, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

Nope because you have cheated. It is human nature to lie, no one is innocent, and if you deny it, you are again lying.

Sounds a whole lot more like you are trying to feel better about cheating yourself, i.e. attempting to label others cheats and drag them down to your level.

Or is it just "Welcome to Draconian times!"

I've never cheated in an online game either. Where's the point? Hell, back in the days of pre-online gaming, I even took the added measure of discontinuing my purchase of such publications as "Gamefan" etc, because they had cheat sections, which I'd rather not have sitting around tempting me to destroy my enjoyment of the games the cheats were for.

Now if we could just get back on topic, that'd be nice. One thing I gotta note, I noticed a ways back in this thread that someone mentioned that some of the "Bots" in Zos Shivros had gotten r6 wis. It'd be hilarious in the extreme if they were actually referring to me, lol, because I farm the Halcyon Job quite a bit, and am r6.. I say this only because I haven't seen that rank on any of the bots there, only me..

Must honestly say that if nothing else, this thread has brought my attention to several really good farms that I was previously unaware of.

If you wanna see who the bots in Zos are, just look for the necro's that run sideways. Simple, eh.

Bob Slydell · May 20, 2010, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Do nothing and the problem gets works.
Ban the bots and GW becomes ghost town.

I think a better approach would be to make it so that bots don't work, or GW client doesn't work while a bot is running. Unfortunately that is easier said than done, but I woujldn't ban them and I wouldn't do nothing.

I'd rather be in a game community with 100,000 mature trusted people than 1,000,000 with 900,000 bots.

Fay Vert · May 20, 2010, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Slydell

I'd rather be in a game community with 100,000 mature trusted people than 1,000,000 with 900,000 bots.

Would you rather be in a clean community of 5000 people or a community of 50,000 who used to bot for titles but can't anymore?

Turbo Ginsu · May 20, 2010, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Slydell

I'd rather be in a game community with 100,000 mature trusted people than 1,000,000 with 900,000 bots.

They don't necessarily have to be mature, just not bloody cheats. Most immature types, i.e. kids, don't cheat until they're taught to, so maturity is no indicator IMO.
Trustworthy and honest, now that would be nice. Whatever did happen to Utopia?

Ninja Ninja · May 20, 2010, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Would you rather be in a clean community of 5000 people or a community of 50,000 who used to bot for titles but can't anymore?

Clean community of 5000. Cheating should never be rewarded.

Killed u man · May 20, 2010, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

Clean community of 5000. Cheating should never be rewarded.

When Anet awarded people for wiki builds in the henchman skillbar contest, they did exactly this.

As I've said before, the current version of bots can easily be detected. This is not a matter of these bots being undetectable, it's a question about Anet being too lazy.

I've even heard that you yourself can detect other botters (injections) using certain client-server protocols which gives you (as the client) some acces to other client's logs. I don't know the exact details or workings, but in essence this program will tell you wether or not the opposing player injected something into GW. (And I think it can even give you the name of the program)

So if this shit is possible, there is no excuse for Anet. This is 100% them completely not caring. Rephrasing: they care, but they can't be asked doing the least bit of effort to keep GW1 going, with the exception of the current "War in Kryta' shiz going on. But even that has been "meh" so far.

Martin Alvito · May 20, 2010, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

As I've said before, the current version of bots can easily be detected. This is not a matter of these bots being undetectable, it's a question about Anet being too lazy.

Actually, it's about being too cheap to expend the money to hire a large enough support staff to police the game. My suspicion is that ANet would like to do this, but someone at NCSoft refuses to let them spend the money.

Throwing money at the problem is the only way ANet can solve it. Trying to close the flaws or institute an automated detection process would just set off the classic arms race between the cheaters and the developers...and I've yet to see a developer win that race.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I've even heard that you yourself can detect other botters (injections) using certain client-server protocols which gives you (as the client) some acces to other client's logs. I don't know the exact details or workings, but in essence this program will tell you wether or not the opposing player injected something into GW. (And I think it can even give you the name of the program)

That's pretty troubling if it's true. Sounds like a possible malware vector.

Bob Slydell · May 20, 2010, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Would you rather be in a clean community of 5000 people or a community of 50,000 who used to bot for titles but can't anymore?

I believe Ninja Ninja answered for me the question dead on, but I'll re answer.

Clean 5000, because cheating SUCKS. And, you KNOW it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

When Anet awarded people for wiki builds in the henchman skillbar contest, they did exactly this.

I fail to see how. The builds weren't summoned forth by some master robot, they were CREATED by people and submitted to the wiki at one time.

Fay Vert · May 21, 2010, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Ever played an MMORPG with a total population of 5,000?

Add in geographic and time differences, multiple chapters and many zones and good luck finding anyone to play with.

It has often been said that without the bots, nobody would be able to play areas like JQ.

Absolutely cheating is wrong, absolutely it should be stopped, but think carefully before you throw thousands out of the game. For ANet that is customers they are chucking off, for players, that is the community gone.

Also, would you like to explain to an under resourced support team that they banned you unfairly and you have never used a bot?

snaek · May 21, 2010, 12:13 AM // 00:13

^fay vert... gw is already a ghost town. what do you think h/h is for?. but to answer your question, yes, i've played numerous mmo's (notably ones with private servers) with populations sitting under 5000.

big population or small, it would be safe to say that the majority prefers having a circle or group of friends, rather than playing with a different strangers every day. this is why people form guilds, clans, and whathaveyous.

Turbo Ginsu · May 21, 2010, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Absolutely cheating is wrong, absolutely it should be stopped, but think carefully before you throw thousands out of the game. For ANet that is customers they are chucking off, for players, that is the community gone.

I really don't think you get it. There is NO fence. A person cheats absolutely or they don't cheat and a bot is the absolute epitome of a cheat.

Quote:

Also, would you like to explain to an under resourced support team that they banned you unfairly and you have never used a bot?

Nope, wouldn't bother personally, I'd just /uninstall and go play something that isn't in the careful guiding hands of idiots.

Ninja Ninja · May 21, 2010, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Ever played an MMORPG with a total population of 5,000?

Add in geographic and time differences, multiple chapters and many zones and good luck finding anyone to play with.

It has often been said that without the bots, nobody would be able to play areas like JQ.

When has a bot ever contributed to a group, luxon side jq is unpopular because of the bots and leechers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

For ANet that is customers they are chucking off, for players, that is the community gone.

Do you think the honest community is going to stick around when a dishonest one is going unpunished and without an honest community to troll the dishonest ones will get bored and quit.

Bob Slydell · May 21, 2010, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Ever played an MMORPG with a total population of 5,000?

Yes, I have and got my 2 years of fun out of it. It's called EverQuest II. There are at least that many people on each one of their servers. The game is mostly soloable if you know what you're doing, and if you need a group or raid to help you with an epic you shout in world chat, or if you have social skills - it isn't hard to get into a guild. With a small community, there is a lot of trust like I saw in that game. It's like a large guild. In GW's terms, 5000 isn't bad either because I've rarely ever pugged and thats what AI is there for, to help you when you can't find/don't want a group.

Most MMO's are so big, it doesn't even matter half the time how many people play. Last time I tried WoW I'd see 2 or 3 other people in random small outposts along the road, maybe 5-10 in stormwind, that game has like 10 million and this was one of the heavier-loaded servers too.

Schnellburg · May 21, 2010, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo Ginsu

I really don't think you get it. There is NO fence. A person cheats absolutely or they don't cheat and a bot is the absolute epitome of a cheat.

Nope, wouldn't bother personally, I'd just /uninstall and go play something that isn't in the careful guiding hands of idiots.

Were already playing a game in guiding hands of idiots. So why are you still playing?

Turbo Ginsu · May 21, 2010, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

Were already playing a game in guiding hands of idiots. So why are you still playing?

That's your opinion. In my opinion, it has yet to be proven utterly. I've seen a few games over the years get ruined by bots, and it's certainly a hard road that aNet have to tread with it.

I wouldn't classify them as idiots yet though. I hope the next couple months will prove that point true or false, just for the sake of a bit of bloody closure or relief from a few less bots.

Can't see them ever banning me for botting though, I'm too crap to possibly be a bot.

Nerel · May 21, 2010, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

It has often been said that without the bots, nobody would be able to play areas like JQ.

Absolutely cheating is wrong, absolutely it should be stopped, but think carefully before you throw thousands out of the game. For ANet that is customers they are chucking off, for players, that is the community gone.

Also, would you like to explain to an under resourced support team that they banned you unfairly and you have never used a bot?

The Luxon side of JQ has fewer real players DUE TO THE BOTS, it's arguable that Jade Quarry would have more players if the bots were removed...

Anet wouldn't be 'chucking off customers' they already have the botters money, and most bot users are (presumably) smart enough to be using alt accounts.
I don't see bots out there joining PvE pugs or making the PvP environment a better or more enjoyable place to play... losing them harms the community naught, it's all win if Anet manages come up with an effective detection method, it's RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing epic win if they manage to ban most of these RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOers... if they manage to match IPs and trade patterns and snare their primary (non bot) accounts too, then that would be epic win with a side order of lulz.

I've been wrongly caught up in a bot sweep before, wasn't fun to be sure, support took under half an hour to restore the account as I recall.

DreamWind · May 21, 2010, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky Raccoon

The ones you blame are the cheaters who use bots. There is no defense for cheating even if you say you do so to counteract the other cheaters. If the game has become unplayable, the best way to show ANET that fact is stop playing.

Yea...that will show them. *internet sarcasm button*

Cacheelma · May 21, 2010, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Ever played an MMORPG with a total population of 5,000?

You did not just ask that on a GW board. Although I think nobody will agree.